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Post by schnacks on Mar 22, 2018 1:56:48 GMT
I have been wondering if gold nibs are just a gimmick to get more of my money, or if they are really a different writing experience. Anyone have any insight for me?
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Post by jamberrychoux on Mar 22, 2018 2:26:02 GMT
I have been wondering if gold nibs are just a gimmick to get more of my money, or if they are really a different writing experience. Anyone have any insight for me? I would love to have more info on this too. I've heard the same thing that gold nibs are the best, but I don't have enough of my own FPs to be able to make a long-term observation about this.
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Post by radellaf on Mar 22, 2018 4:13:10 GMT
Few good articles can be found googling "gold vs steel nibs". Some say gold has more "give" or spring, but I don't find that true across the board. I have springy steel (Parker Sonnet, Pelikan M200) and stiff gold nibs (Waterman Edson/Carene, Platinum 3776). Some pens like the Pilot 823 have nibs with a great touch that aren't offered in steel, so sometimes you don't get a choice. Or, like with the Taccia Spectrum, the two materials come in two completely differently designed nibs. A lot of nice pens only offer gold, and have especially nice nibs, which I think is where any idea that gold is better comes from. I wouldn't call them a "gimmick". I'd call 18kt a prestige thing over 14kt, perhaps. For the subset of screw-in nibs where the nib _is_ the same design in steel and gold: edisonpen.com/in-praise-of-steel-nibs-2
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Post by alcyone on Mar 22, 2018 16:05:09 GMT
I have been wondering if gold nibs are just a gimmick to get more of my money, or if they are really a different writing experience. Anyone have any insight for me? I don't think the difference is dramatic in rigid nibs or small, hooded nibs (like the Lamy 2000 or Parker 51). it's noticeable in nibs that are meant to be bouncy, and dramatic in vintage flex pens. All of my nibs have different character and it's as much about the shape and size and tipping as it is about the substance. When you think about it, your writing surface is really the blob of tipping material, which is some super hard metal; neither the gold nor steel touches the paper (except on folded steel nibs, like some Esterbrooks). So, they can be different, but steel nibs are different from one another too. On my Edisons, I have some steel and some gold in the same form factor. The gold ones I like a little bit less. They are a little wetter and the flow is not as consistent. They are nice to look at though. My Sailor and Pelikan nibs are fun to look at, but i could probably buy a $2 kaleidoscope if I just want to look at pretty things. On my vintage pens, the ones that were designed to flex a little do so noticeably, and that kind of flexibility is difficult to achieve in steel, or even modern gold nibs. If you want vintage flex, you'd be better off looking at specific pens. Things like "soft" nibs give some spring when you write, but don't change the line much. I have a springy Platinum nib that I like a bit less than my rigid nibs. With rigid nibs, I have had good luck with both steel and gold. Some companies, like Pilot, seem to bring their A game to both steel and gold nibs. richardspens.com/?page=xf/2011/05.htmI like both, but sometimes with my eyes closed I can't really tell the difference, and no one could tell by looking at what I wrote (except for the flex nibs). I guess my advice is to try the pens you want to buy if at all possible, and the nib is just one factor in whether you like the pen. It's easy to accumulate a lot of pens you don't love just to try different kinds of nibs and filling systems and materials and you end up with a pile of clutter. Some people are more OK with that than others.
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Post by sails on Mar 22, 2018 17:02:36 GMT
I have been wondering if gold nibs are just a gimmick to get more of my money, or if they are really a different writing experience. Anyone have any insight for me? Depending on your budget, you can try a gold nib in a standard color Platinum 3776 Century. Mine (M) is a bit springy. I think they go for $80-150.
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Post by schnacks on Mar 22, 2018 17:06:16 GMT
but i could probably buy a $2 kaleidoscope if I just want to look at pretty things. Ha ha ha ha ha ha I guess my advice is to try the pens you want to buy if at all possible, and the nib is just one factor in whether you like the pen. It's easy to accumulate a lot of pens you don't love just to try different kinds of nibs and filling systems and materials and you end up with a pile of clutter. Some people are more OK with that than others. I really appreciate hearing your thoughts and I am making notes! Sadly, no pen shops or shows down in my neck of the woods. The one time I visited a pen shop was in Arizona, and it was great to try some pens there. Maybe I just need to travel more!
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Post by radellaf on Mar 23, 2018 2:41:06 GMT
It's easy to accumulate a lot of pens you don't love just to try different kinds of nibs and filling systems and materials and you end up with a pile of clutter. Some people are more OK with that than others. That's how I roll. A lot I like, a lot I don't, and a few I love. The clutter is just a bonus.
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Post by penguy on Apr 5, 2018 15:29:56 GMT
Now, I have clutter I guess! There are probably 100 pens in my collection. Most are vintage pens (older than I am) and usually with gold nib. One of the things that started me on this fountain pen journey was the appearance of the writing on postcards and letters I'd found written in the 20's and 30's. I had wondered what type of pen was used. I found the culprits in some of the early Waterman and Moore pens and my favorite Weidlich. If you haven't used a 14K nib with flex you need to give it a try.
But be careful if you see someone trying to tell you how flexy the nib is by having the nib do the splits in his sales photos. The nib is likely to be sprung when you get it. When I am writing with a flex nib I am perhaps using half of the line width the nib might be capable of making, only enough to give me the line variation I'm looking for. A good source of information on flex nibs is the following website:http://www.vintagepen.net (towards the bottom on the left side). Contemporary pens claiming flex nibs don't seem to cut it. I have a Namiki Falcon which is a very nice pen, then there are the Noodler's pens (which I have a bunch of), and a Stipula Casa Mila with a titanium flex nib....and none of them perform as well as my vintage pens.
If you are looking for smooth writers a steel nib can be as smooth as a gold nib. Some fountain pen users want a bit of feedback and feel that some nibs can be almost too smooth and almost skate across the paper.
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Post by although on Apr 15, 2018 0:16:14 GMT
Gold nibs are nice, but I think that a well built pen with a steel nib will write every bit as well as an identical pen with a gold nib. It becomes hard to do a direct comparison, because pens with gold nibs are frequently nicer than pens with steel nibs. In my opinion, fountain pens begin to transition into functional jewelry around a certain price point. I would suggest that anything over $50 is beginning to slide into the jewelry zone, and anything over $200 has pretty much achieved full jewelry that just happens to be able to function as a pen. Don't get me wrong. I'm cool with jewelry. I don't wear rings or necklaces, but I have at least a couple of pens that cost over $200. And I guarantee you that if I'm putting on my tux with tails, It's going to be one of those two pens that goes along for the ride If I ever manage to score a Montblanc 149, that's totally going to be my tuxedo pen... Anyway, back to steel vs gold. I would suggest that most manufacturers will put more effort into doing final tuning/polishing on their gold nibs than on their steel nibs. The Lamy factory hand polishes and tests all of the nibs for the 2000. They don't do that with the steel nibs (although they do an automated writing test with a machine, which is pretty cool). That's another apples/oranges problem with the steel/gold comparisons. So, once again, are gold nibs better? I would say that they aren't fundamentally better. But, they usually come in nicer pens and the factories are more likely to try harder with the setup on their gold nib pens than they will with the steel nib units. So, my answer is no... but yes... It depends. cheers!
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Post by sharmon202 on Apr 15, 2018 5:24:32 GMT
I have a variety of pens with gold nibs. My older Pelikan is very soft kind of flexy in my light hand. Newer ones not so much. Pilot Falcons very nice and soft, which I like. I have only known about the differences by buying or trying at a show. For real gold and flex I think you have to go vintage. I disagree, my opinion, making standard statement about when pens are jewelry. To each his own.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 6:20:25 GMT
... I have at least a couple of pens that cost over $200. And I guarantee you that if I'm putting on my tux with tails, It's going to be one of those two pens that goes along for the ride Nowadays smartphones have taken over of the "social function" of precious and expensive pens, tie pins and button studs. I wonder what women would be more impressed by.
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Post by radellaf on Apr 15, 2018 17:16:38 GMT
In my opinion, fountain pens begin to transition into functional jewelry around a certain price point. I would suggest that anything over $50 is beginning to slide into the jewelry zone, and anything over $200 has pretty much achieved full jewelry that just happens to be able to function as a pen. I think the concept is right, but the pens where the money has clearly gone into pen-parts rather than appearance go up at least into the high $200s. The Pilot 823 is a good example. Go by the nib - does the extra money, vs that maker's cheaper pens, buy you a different nib & feed, or are you getting the same unit in a fancier material? Visconti has a lot of pricey pens where the nib is a screw-in unit that fits other pens. For that matter so does TWSBI, and even if they're both under $100, the "AL" version is just adding "jewelry" to the base model (maybe durability? IDK, the piston screw isn't the weak part). Something like the Waterman Edson is an exception in that it has a unique nib, albeit similar to the Carene, but the whole front end is more appearance than function. Hence all the trips to the repair center for the 100% stiff, pretty, nib leaking out the bottom of the "feed guard"? When it comes to material, though, I can't call it all just jewelry/decoration. Is the green arco celluloid Omas had _just_ decoration? Sort of. The pen didn't write any better. But, some materials just make for a subtly nicer looking pen. Under bright light at the right angle it's a jewel, but in the pocket it's just a stripey dark green pen. That's not in the "just happens to be able to function as a pen" realm of the really glitzy models, which are usually well over $600. The nib fell out of my Omas once, which could be a sign of "happening to function as a pen (but compromised)," but I fault Italian vs German or Japanese design for that. They used hard rubber in a high-stress area where metal or plastic should have been. Because hard rubber and a simple feed has more of some sort of vintage appeal than a Pelikan nib unit or a Pilot plastic feed, despite not managing the whole ink/air thing as well. Aurora Optima pens are expensive, but I wouldn't call them anything other than really good pens, technology and appearance. They don't have, AFAIK, a cheaper model with the same nib, so you're kinda stuck paying for appearance to get good nibbage. Again, not "happening to function as a pen," even though they're over $500. In plain black maybe they would be $200 less, who knows, but the pretty material doesn't compromise the writing. Just makes it harder to afford. Good to keep in mind the division of cost between function and appearance for a pen, but I don't think you can put a definite threshold, across all brands, on where you're buying just appearance. I can say that if you'll go to around $200, you'll get to try the majority of the best nibs. If you stay under $50, you'll get some great pens, but you'll be getting standard nibs. Dunno if I'd call them "worse," but you'll be missing out on variety.
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Post by penguy on Apr 21, 2018 5:35:42 GMT
Now in a pen catalog I saw a pen for $1,500,000, it was white gold encrusted with diamonds. If it sold it is probably in a safety deposit box or behind glass in s display case but probably won't see ink. It is an object not a pen. If you pay $500 or more for a pen you are probably buying a name and probably it isn't in actuality any better than a pen for $250. I agree with radellaf about $200 is where you get the best quality materials, fit, finish and a quality nib. At prices below about $70 you are getting some good starter pens. Here I am assuming all pens would be new pens.
With contemporary pens, if you want a stiff nib (a nail) in F,M, or B it probably won't matter if it is a gold or steel nib. Both can be smooth. If you want to use iron gal inks you would probably be better off with a gold nib. If you want line variation a steel stub or cursive italic will be fine. If you want a nib that gives you good flex I would look for a pen from the 1920's through the 1940's in 14K gold. It needn't be an expensive pen with a gold nib. There are some very good warranted 14K nibs (nibs used for replacing a damaged nib or used in second tier pens and not name brands) some with really nice flex. Flex writing takes a light hand and control. Whatever you do don't try to push a gold nib to maximum flex, gold is softer than steel, and you would probably ruin the nib. I should mention that a gold nib isn't necessarily a flex nib.
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Post by radellaf on Apr 21, 2018 18:47:28 GMT
If you pay $500 or more for a pen you are probably buying a name and probably it isn't in actuality any better than a pen for $250. True, unfortunately some really nice pens can only be had with a name attached that doubles the price.
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Post by Lupine on Dec 10, 2020 17:16:03 GMT
I think the concept is right, but the pens where the money has clearly gone into pen-parts rather than appearance go up at least into the high $200s. The Pilot 823 is a good example. Go by the nib - does the extra money, vs that maker's cheaper pens, buy you a different nib & feed, or are you getting the same unit in a fancier material? Visconti has a lot of pricey pens where the nib is a screw-in unit that fits other pens. For that matter so does TWSBI, and even if they're both under $100, the "AL" version is just adding "jewelry" to the base model (maybe durability? IDK, the piston screw isn't the weak part). Something like the Waterman Edson is an exception in that it has a unique nib, albeit similar to the Carene, but the whole front end is more appearance than function. Hence all the trips to the repair center for the 100% stiff, pretty, nib leaking out the bottom of the "feed guard"? When it comes to material, though, I can't call it all just jewelry/decoration. Is the green arco celluloid Omas had _just_ decoration? Sort of. The pen didn't write any better. But, some materials just make for a subtly nicer looking pen. Under bright light at the right angle it's a jewel, but in the pocket it's just a stripey dark green pen. That's not in the "just happens to be able to function as a pen" realm of the really glitzy models, which are usually well over $600. The nib fell out of my Omas once, which could be a sign of "happening to function as a pen (but compromised)," but I fault Italian vs German or Japanese design for that. They used hard rubber in a high-stress area where metal or plastic should have been. Because hard rubber and a simple feed has more of some sort of vintage appeal than a Pelikan nib unit or a Pilot plastic feed, despite not managing the whole ink/air thing as well. Aurora Optima pens are expensive, but I wouldn't call them anything other than really good pens, technology and appearance. They don't have, AFAIK, a cheaper model with the same nib, so you're kinda stuck paying for appearance to get good nibbage. Again, not "happening to function as a pen," even though they're over $500. In plain black maybe they would be $200 less, who knows, but the pretty material doesn't compromise the writing. Just makes it harder to afford. Good to keep in mind the division of cost between function and appearance for a pen, but I don't think you can put a definite threshold, across all brands, on where you're buying just appearance. I can say that if you'll go to around $200, you'll get to try the majority of the best nibs. If you stay under $50, you'll get some great pens, but you'll be getting standard nibs. Dunno if I'd call them "worse," but you'll be missing out on variety. Just for the heck of it, I'll let you know that even though this post is like 20 months old, I just came across it and I found it really super helpful. Thanks.
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