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Post by ginny on Nov 18, 2021 15:14:22 GMT
I'm not sure if this thread is in the correct section, but I'll give it a shot, anyway - and if it isn't, please feel free to move it to the relevant place, Mia - thanks!
I was wondering how people here might feel about the topic of language in letters... Over the past years, I've noticed how it's getting more common to start sentences with a verb - examples: Saw the film xyz. Went to town. Bought some food.
Obviously, the point is that the sender / writer of the letter did all that - so why don't they write 'I saw', 'I went', 'I bought' - isn't that considered appropriate anymore? I mean, I can see why people leave out words or use abbreviations when they send a text message or write something in a comment on social media (particularly on Twitter where you only have a certain number of characters per tweet), but in a letter? You have all the time and space in the world, so why not spell it out? Am I the only one who finds that rude?
I look forward to hearing people's opinions
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Post by Gary S on Nov 18, 2021 16:28:49 GMT
I was told by someone who was a much better writer than I am that I should always strive to write a sentence exactly as I would speak it if I were speaking out loud. I'll qualify that statement with the fact that she was a superb script writer so that may have colored her advice to some degree but in the context she gave the advice she was referring to the writing of my letters and stories included in my letters to her. I often speak using the understood you or I in a sentence so that's the way I write them out in my letters. Otherwise the letter can sound a bit stilted with all the "I bought", I watched" and "I went" in sentence after sentence.
I agree that leaving off the subject is a form of shorthand to make it easier to write or speak certain declarative sentences and isn't proper English but it's become common usage in the last half century or so. Personally I use it more on vacation postcards where space is at a minimum but in a story about an event that happened I might well use it especially if using quotes or using actual dialogue to create more realism. Personally I find the dropping of the subject in sentences makes your narrative seem more like a journal or diary entry rather than the imitation of actual speaking patterns but I'm sure everyone sees things differently. Perhaps the writer actually speaks in that fashion in real life so they are being true in the representation of their personal speech patterns.
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Post by ginny on Nov 18, 2021 16:51:08 GMT
Thank you for your reply, Gary S, that's an interesting point. As it is, I grew up with the concept that dropping the subject is bad style and makes you sound coarse and unaccomplished. I'm afraid that's how I still see it now, and letters that are full of shortened sentences make me uncomfortable. Also, I remember how my teachers at school used to say 'Other people deserve being addressed correctly and politely, so speak and write in complete sentences', and incomplete sentences were considered disrespectful. Of course, my mother tongue is not English, so that might make a difference here, too Having said that... If someone wrote to me in that 'shorthand' in my own language, the correspondence would not last very long, that much is sure.
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Post by penguy on Nov 19, 2021 5:51:21 GMT
I am wondering what your feelings are about perpetual I's in a letter. When looking over a letter and seeing I, I, I scattered throughout almost every paragraph it seems like the letter becomes too self centered. Of course if you are telling about what you are doing perhaps you can't avoid it. Structuring a letter with sentences that don't perpetually use I helps solve the problem.
Also, speaking of writing the way you speak, I use contractions when speaking and also in my writing. Does that cause problems for a person for whom English is not their primary language. I'll be anxious to see what you'll say.
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Post by ginny on Nov 19, 2021 11:43:50 GMT
I am wondering what your feelings are about perpetual I's in a letter. When looking over a letter and seeing I, I, I scattered throughout almost every paragraph it seems like the letter becomes too self centered. Of course if you are telling about what you are doing perhaps you can't avoid it. Structuring a letter with sentences that don't perpetually use I helps solve the problem. Also, speaking of writing the way you speak, I use contractions when speaking and also in my writing. Does that cause problems for a person for whom English is not their primary language. I'll be anxious to see what you'll say. Well, penguy, the 'me, myself and I' thing is something universal in any language, no matter which one you use I agree with you that it's helpful to structure a letter with more variation. A complete sentence doesn't necessarily mean 'subject - predicate - object'. There are all kinds of 'stylistic device', aren't there... And in my opinion, it's still better to start a sentence with 'I' than with a verb. A sentence doesn't get less self-centred when you leave off the subject - you're still talking about yourself, which is fine, because this is what you want to do at that point: you are talking about what you've been up to, how you feel about something and what your plans are.
As far as contractions are concerned - I can only speak for myself there, obviously, but we learnt about contractions at school, so they're not a problem for me. You see me using them all the time. It gets a bit more difficult when people use contractions that are a bit more colloquial or 'outdated', for lack of a better word... An example would be 'shan't' - as used in 'I shan't be long' - as far as I know, that's not widely used in written English, and when someone does it, it might be confusing for someone who hasn't encountered it before. Personally, it doesn't bother me much when I'm not familiar with a contraction. Usually, I get the gist of it from the context - and if I don't, there are always dictionaries...
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Post by sunshine2170 on Nov 19, 2021 16:18:46 GMT
I wrote better than I speak. I also have time to pour over what I have written and too many I's or whatever doesn't look or sound good when one reads it back in a letter/document etc., but to leave it out is a travesty lol.
I learnt to write back in the day when you had to write properly so I still keep up with it as much as I can.
I feel bad for the new generations that abbreviate and not make proper sentences. English language is so nice when written properly.
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Post by radellaf on Nov 19, 2021 22:46:54 GMT
I might find leaving off the "I" subject annoying, but not "rude". Shorthand isn't meant as any kind of insult or disrespect like "you're not worth taking the time to write all the words for". I write "thru" or "tho" a lot and mean nothing by it other than I don't feel like going through the pen-motions of writing the whole word.
How about: I was asked where I went, and I said "So, went to the movies..." Extra "so" is always so nice, so far, not so-so.
What I'm self-conscious about is my "but". I often say "this, but that" and wonder if there's a but-less way to put it. And if there's any reason for a but-ectomy.
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Post by summer87 on Nov 20, 2021 10:25:05 GMT
I am wondering what your feelings are about perpetual I's in a letter. When looking over a letter and seeing I, I, I scattered throughout almost every paragraph it seems like the letter becomes too self centered. Of course if you are telling about what you are doing perhaps you can't avoid it. Structuring a letter with sentences that don't perpetually use I helps solve the problem. Also, speaking of writing the way you speak, I use contractions when speaking and also in my writing. Does that cause problems for a person for whom English is not their primary language. I'll be anxious to see what you'll say. This repeated "I,I,I" is something I struggle with a lot. (English is not my native language), so when I re-read my letters, I notice a LOT of Is. Saw the number of 'I's there? :/
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Post by ginny on Nov 20, 2021 14:37:18 GMT
I might find leaving off the "I" subject annoying, but not "rude". Shorthand isn't meant as any kind of insult or disrespect like "you're not worth taking the time to write all the words for". I write "thru" or "tho" a lot and mean nothing by it other than I don't feel like going through the pen-motions of writing the whole word. How about: I was asked where I went, and I said "So, went to the movies..." Extra "so" is always so nice, so far, not so-so. What I'm self-conscious about is my "but". I often say "this, but that" and wonder if there's a but-less way to put it. And if there's any reason for a but-ectomy. Oh, I know it's not *meant* to be rude or disrespectful. However... no matter how much I know it, it still rubs me the wrong way.
I reckon it has to do with English being my second language. I'm not that finicky with German (although certain negligences and phrases drive me up the wall in my mother tongue, too).
The extra 'so' is a bit of a filler word, isn't it. We have that in German, too, but more in *spoken* language.
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Post by Catida on Nov 20, 2021 15:15:30 GMT
Hmm.. I've never thought it could be considered rude. I saw my US penpals write like that, and first I found it weird, but then I thought it's something native writers do (these days?). And now I've started to do it myself too Maybe this also has to do with that in Finnish it's not necessary to write down the subject, as it's included in the verb form. Perhaps that makes it feel more natural to me, the sentences without a (written) subject.
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Post by ginny on Nov 21, 2021 11:44:03 GMT
Hmm.. I've never thought it could be considered rude. I saw my US penpals write like that, and first I found it weird, but then I thought it's something native writers do (these days?). And now I've started to do it myself too Maybe this also has to do with that in Finnish it's not necessary to write down the subject, as it's included in the verb form. Perhaps that makes it feel more natural to me, the sentences without a (written) subject. Catida, that is a very good point - depending on where we come from (language-wise), we might see things differently.
I don't do it in my own language, so I don't do it in English, either
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graphitediaries
Pencils
Posts: 61
Looking for Penpals?: Yes. Global penpals welcome
Country I live in is: Quebec
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Post by graphitediaries on Nov 21, 2021 18:19:18 GMT
On one hand, I'm an English teacher, so poor language use from native speakers sometimes grates on me. On the other hand, I teach almost exclusively Francophone students who are learning English as their second language, so I'm super-easy-going about errors of form common among language learners (and being a language learner myself, I find this tolerance among native speakers essential to confidence-building).
On top of that, however, I recognize that language is a living thing and it evolves over the years, and many of us change the way we use language several times over our lifetimes. The only thing that really makes something "correct" English is that it is used and understood by a community of speakers on a regular basis, and the most important thing is that those communicating, no matter what version of the language they use, understand each other.
Finally, in a community of letter writers whose essential common link is their sharing (and sometimes showing off) of language skills, I'd say if someone's language use in their letters grates on you to the point that you don't enjoy their letters much, tell them so. If they don't change, maybe they're not the penpal for you.
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Post by emeraldscribbles on Nov 21, 2021 18:31:09 GMT
...always strive to write a sentence exactly as I would speak it if I were speaking out loud. ^^^ This. I am a big grammar/spelling/punctuation freak, but when I write letters, I write how I talk. Lots of ellipses, hyphens, all caps...whatever it takes. I say "y'all" a lot I enjoy reading letters that are similar. After all, I feel a letter is like a conversation between two friends, so it's nice to "hear" the other person when I read a letter.
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Post by MKB on Nov 22, 2021 16:41:38 GMT
Words and handwriting to me are like a pallet for painting. Please send me a letter oozing with your own character. If that’s constraint then don’t feel the need to loosen up. If clever or well crafted I’ll enjoy as well. If ink splatters and messy language abound from the ferocity of your expression, I’ll bask in the glow.
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Post by vertolive on Nov 23, 2021 6:37:13 GMT
Ginny, I’m not sure where that quirk is coming from but I think it may be evolving out of texting. English is not a highly inflected language and pronouns are crucial. I agree, the result of leaving out the “I” sounds more like shorthand to oneself as I might do when journaling.
That said, I notice but seldom mind oddities and colloquialisms in the letters that I get. I love the variety of voices that come through; it’s part of the fun for me ☺️.
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